Christine Chaillot is the author of The Coptic Orthodox Church: Life and Spirituality, Paris 2005. She participated in the International Congress of Coptic Studies which was held in Cairo in September 2008, where she presented a paper entitled, ‘Presentation of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate at Anba Ruwais and some of its Symbolic Importance’. Furthermore, Ms Chaillot has written several important books on the Oriental Orthodox Churches: Coptic, Syrian Orthodox, Ethiopian and Armenian (in preparation). Ms Chaillot graciously spoke to Watani.
Watani: How can you present yourself to our readers?
Chaillot: I studied art history and literature at Geneva University. I visited Egypt for the first time in 1981 and spent three months visiting Coptic Orthodox churches, monasteries and communities. At that time I was completely ignorant of the Coptic tradition. I was amazed by the monuments, and especially by the people I met.
Then I was fascinated to discover the Church’s tradition and Coptic spirituality. I met many spiritual fathers, some of them icons of the ancient desert fathers: not only young monks, but also elders whose attitudes were live teachings of the spiritual Coptic monastic wisdom.
What effect did this visit have on your life?
As soon as I returned to Geneva I took courses in the Coptic language at Geneva University, with the aim of reading the desert fathers in Coptic. Later I was asked by Le Monde Copte to write my first articles for them, on the deaconesses, nuns and women in the Coptic Orthodox tradition (Volume 16), and other articles. Then I began to write my own books on Oriental Orthodox Churches.
During your visits in the early 1980s, did you encounter any problem, especially being a young European woman?
I was travelling alone by bus or train without any knowledge of Arabic. So wherever I arrived I would ask for the Coptic ‘Mutraniah’ [diocese headquarters]. There the bishops and priests would do their best to help me. I must say that all received me as a family member.
Was it your first contact with Orthodoxy?
Before my first visit in 1981, I spent three months in Jerusalem where I met several Eastern Orthodox [Greek, Russian and Romanian] as well as Oriental Orthodox [Copts, Ethiopians, Syrian Orthodox and Armenians], both clergy and laymen. I came to conclusion that the Orthodox Church was going to become my spiritual home.
Having become Orthodox and tasted the Orthodox spirituality, I wished to share what I had experienced during my travels and meetings with Christians of the Middle East, Ethiopia and elsewhere.
Can you tell us about your interest in the theological dialogue between the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches?
This dialogue began officially in 1985 in Chambésy in Geneva, at the Centre of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Constantinople where is also situated my Orthodox parish. The unofficial dialogue had already begun in 1964. It was a great step after 15 centuries of schism and Christological misunderstanding. I was very enthusiastic. I carefully read all the texts about the development of the theological dialogue, and I took a special interest in the ‘recommendations’ suggested by the participant theologians. For the two families of Churches, Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox, to know and understand each other; this was the turning point to begin writing my books.
What was your first publication?
It was a book in French on the role of pictures and the veneration of icons in the Oriental Orthodox Churches. I wanted to show that if the Oriental Orthodox Churches had icons and pictures of Christ representing His human nature, it was a clear testimony that the Oriental Orthodox Churches believed in the Divinity AND Humanity of Christ, and that they were not Monophysite in the sense that Christ has only the Divine Nature, as the heretic Eutychius said. I also wrote several articles in French for Le Monde Copte about Coptic nuns, deaconess and women, the Coptic Institute, the Copts in Jerusalem, etc. I also greatly contributed to two issues of Le Monde Copte with Coptic icons (Volumes 17 and 18).
Why do you publish in English while you are French speaking?
I want to share with as many people as possible, not only in Egypt but also all over the world, where English is easily read and understood. However I am preparing a book in French containing the four books on Oriental Orthodox Churches which I wrote in English, in one volume. Three of my books were translated and published in Arabic and they are sold for 1 Euro [less than EGP10] because I want to share with the readers of the Middle East according to their own budget. The same was organised in Ethiopia for a translation into Amharic. Translations of my books are being prepared in other languages such as Russian. All this contributes to sharing and mutual knowledge. I think that it is also very important for the Oriental Orthodox people who are of the same Church family to know each other.
Your second book was about the Syrian Orthodox Church
During my trips to the Middle East I was shocked by the situation of the Syrian Orthodox community in southeastern Turkey, at Tur Abdin, the home of the Syrian Orthodox Christians since the beginning of Christianity. The area is often improperly presented by Kurds and Western media as being only part of Kurdish land. In the Middle Ages there were more than seventy monasteries in that area; in the early 1990s there were only about 1,000 families left. Since the late 19th century many massacres were committed against Christian groups in Turkey, mainly the Armenians, Syrian Orthodox and Assyrians. A large part of the Christian population was massacred (one and a half million Armenians and a third of the two other communities), while some managed to flee for their lives, leaving their homeland. This was the beginning of their diasporas, and today they are present all around the world, mostly in Europe, the Americas and Australia. Today the most suffering Christians of the Middle East are in Iraq, including the Syrian Orthodox, Armenian and Assyrian communities; half the Iraqi Christians have already left their country, probably for ever.
As a reader, I notice that you have adopted the same plan for each book. Can you tell the readers of Watani about it?
Speaking of life and spirituality, there are [chapters on] an introduction to the history; the organisation of the church, the mission and diaspora, as well as Sunday schools and youth movements. I also tackle the language and literature used in each Church, as well as liturgical life, spirituality and monastic life. In each book my aim is to highlight what is specific in each Church tradition, and the reader can also understand what is common in the tradition of all the Orthodox Churches. In all my books I make a short overview on the past, but my main sight is towards the present and also the future.
Can you tell us about the role of the women in the Coptic Orthodox Church?
In my chapter on the organisation of the Church I mention the fact that many women are active in the Coptic Orthodox Church. I also explain the work of the Coptic deaconesses, which began at the time of Pope Cyril and continued under Pope Shenouda. The deaconesses as such disappeared during the Middle Ages, although they existed in several Oriental Churches before and still exist in some Protestant Churches. This was possible because some Coptic bishops organised the work as well as the daily and spiritual life of the first deaconesses. Rules for the deaconesses were established by the Holy Synod including the bishops, who recognise and respect the work of the deaconesses today, as well as the clergy and lay people. The revival of the deaconesses in the Coptic Orthodox Church is a unique experience which can be a model for other ancient Churches today.
Have you met Pope Shenouda and other bishops?
During my many interviews I met many bishops and also the patriarch. I used to go every Wednesday to listen to Pope Shenouda III in the Cathedral. I was amazed by the many and diverse questions the faithful asked him, and how deeply he answered them, always with simple words. Pope Shenouda is not only a man of great spirituality but also a great pedagogue. I hope that the young Copts who will become priests and bishops will be able to continue this fantastic Christian testimony. It is very necessary to follow the Church Fathers of the past and of today.
Sister Emmanuelle died recently, did you meet her?
Yes I did, in 1981 when I visited Egypt for the first time, and also later. She is a unique model of a person with a Christian, ecumenical and inter-religious spirit. She was Catholic but she understood that the sisters who should continue her work should be of the largest Christian community in Egypt, that is the Coptic Orthodox Church; and she chose the sisters of Beni Sueif, then under Bishop Athanasius, to follow up her mission, which they do with the same great smile, joy and love. Sister Emmanuelle had so many friends among the Muslims and people of other religions. Her religion was to share with everyone and make all people feel they had to share with the most needy, as brothers and sisters, always with hope, great energy and limitless love. She used to ask everyone: “And you, what are you doing to help others?” We must all follow her example.
As a foreigner, you may see something that we [Copts] cannot see about ourselves?
The most positive thing I noticed is this incredible trust and faith the Copts have in God, whatever may happen. In the West we are so rational even if we are Christian believers. I always get ‘refreshed’ and strengthened in my faith while I stay with Copts.
On the other side, as I love reading, I have noticed that many Copts don’t read much which can be explained by the fact that books are expensive and that people in the Middle East prefer talking to reading. Nevertheless it is important for Copts to learn about their history, culture, literature, monastic tradition, etc. It would be great while they were visiting their monasteries not only to venerate the saints and relics, which is the first duty of every Coptic pilgrim, but also to open their interest in art, archeology and history. This is what the late Bishop Samuel did for many years with some students. And it would be also nice if some monks or other people could explain that their spiritual life can only be deepened by learning more about anything concerning the Coptic heritage, including Coptic language. Today most of the prayers are said in Arabic, the spoken language of Egypt. People like Bishop Demetrius of Mallawi encourage the youth to study Coptic. It is a big effort. But it helps push Copts to revive the use of Coptic for today and tomorrow and to keep their heritage alive.
What will be your next project about Coptic heritage?
I hope to make the Coptic culture and Church tradition better known wherever I travel, during conferences, lectures and informal talks. I also hope to help some Coptic associations abroad. There are many articles and books about Coptic literature, art or archeology written in English, French and other western languages. We must encourage Copts to read such literature wherever they live.
To whom did you address your books?
I began to write my books in the context of Christian ecumenical dialogue, and more specifically in the context of the theological dialogue between the Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox. But my books, including the one on the Coptic Church, are also read and used by other people, not only in ecumenical circles. Some professors use it and give the title to their first year students as an introduction to the Oriental Orthodox Churches. Some travellers use my books as guide books as there are some maps and explanations, of the monasteries for example; or to understand the main sequences of the liturgy. As my books give an introduction to the life and spirituality of the Oriental Churches, and as they have no political nor polemical comments, I wish that non Christians could read them, including in Egypt where Muslims often know little about their Coptic fellows.
Have Copts contributed in any way to your books?
My books are based on my travels and meetings which allowed me to enter in direct contact with several key persons but also with the clergy, youth and common people as well as with monks and nuns. All these people ARE the Church. I also make interviews with all of them so that the reader may hear their voices. I do research in libraries, and some scholars were so kind as to give me advice. Much of the information in my books was given to me by the congregation whether in their homeland or in the diaspora. I want to thank them all. During my meetings with Copts, wonderful friendships took root. I want to thank all who shared hospitality, time and conversation with me.
For more than 25 years you have visited Egypt regularly. Have you noticed some changes?
The changes are all too obvious. Most Muslim women are veiled today (which was not the case before) and Islamic trends are growing. Mentalities have changed. I remember what Egyptian friends living in Egypt before the time of Nasser told me how the cohabitation of all people of different religions was friendly and easy. Today people speak of the need for inter-religious dialogue, even in Egypt. They forget that inter-religious dialogue was a reality in Egypt not so long ago. The questions are: how to keep dialogue with people who do not want one? How to answer the change in mentality in a peaceful way?
Youhanna Nessim Youssef is a Senior Research Associate, Centre of Early Christian Studies, Australian Catholic University, Melbourne, Australia.